ONLINE CHAT 3-9-2005
*+**** Sheena--Malhotra entered WS300OL_18607-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Wednesday, March 9, 2005 3:59pm
Sheena Malhotra>>hi everyone
Sheena Malhotra>>how are folks feeling today?
Sheena Malhotra>>feel like I haven't seen you in a while!
Sheena Malhotra>>KU
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Sheena Malhotra>>VB. no problem
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Sheena Malhotra>>SZ
Sheena Malhotra>>KU: I think there might be other people looking for a group
Sheena Malhotra>>VB
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Sheena Malhotra>>KU
Sheena Malhotra>>VB... Dora still shows up on my class list
Sheena Malhotra>>KU... okay
Sheena Malhotra>>SZ... yes... the exam grade should be there... I believe others were able to see theirs
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Sheena Malhotra>>KU
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Sheena Malhotra>>KU. You can email me and I'll try and get that information to you
Natalia Escuti>>!
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Sheena Malhotra>>KU. You can't see it once it's turned in.
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Sheena Malhotra>>NE
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Natalia Escuti>>yes , i wanted to do the same to see where i went wrong
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Sheena Malhotra>>NE... please email me
Sheena Malhotra>>KU
Natalia Escuti>>okay thanks!
Sheena Malhotra>>VB
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Sheena Malhotra>>i just want to check that others were able to see their grade through WebCT, yes?
Jessica Peterson>>yes
Ashlee Burke>>yes
Crysol Dominguez>>yes
Barbara Abantao>>yes
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Sheena Malhotra>>9 and above puts you in the A range
Natalia Escuti>>!
Mike Black>>yes
Sheena Malhotra>>SZ... today... just a little bit ago
Sheena Malhotra>>okay... great, so that's working
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Evelyn Cazun-Rodriguez>>yes
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Sheena Malhotra>>other logistical questions
Sheena Malhotra>>anyone needing a group?
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Sheena Malhotra>>or are we all set?
Natalia Escuti>>I want to take this opportunity to ask if o can be added to a group...i am "groupless"
Wendell Smith>>I think I do
Wendell Smith>>I need a group also
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Sheena Malhotra>>any groups with small numbers that can add folks?
Natalia Escuti>>DO U WANT TO JOIN FORCES..HAHAHA
Sheena Malhotra>>Yes... or NE & WS could become their own group
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Wendell Smith>>yes that would be fine
Natalia Escuti>>OKAY, THEN WE'LL HAVE OUR OWN GROUP
Sheena Malhotra>>okay... let's move on.
Sheena Malhotra>>any other questions that are logistical?
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Crysol Dominguez>>?
Sheena Malhotra>>CD
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Crysol Dominguez>>what was the class average?
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Sheena Malhotra>>VB... I just saw that I missed your question above. You can get some general information about the woman... but the more you can focus in on two things: the intersectionalities of gender/race/class/sexuality in her life and how she negotiates them... and 2) how she is an agent of change.... the stronger your paper will be
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Sheena Malhotra>>CD. Don't know. I think WebCT generates one when you see your grade. It wasn't high though
Crysol Dominguez>>ok
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Sheena Malhotra>>I was pretty generous with the essay question points. So mostly the points you're all missing are on the multiple choice
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Evelyn Cazun-Rodriguez>>?
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Sheena Malhotra>>okay... i'm going to go ahead and start the class discussion
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Sheena Malhotra>>today the main topic of discussion is whiteness
Sheena Malhotra>>you all have seen "the color of fear" and read the McIntosh piece
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Ashlee Burke>>yes
Sheena Malhotra>>I want to open it up by talking about the film first.
Jessica Peterson>>yes
Joi Pinney>>yes
Teresa Worrell>>yes
Evelyn Cazun-Rodriguez>>yes
Barbara Abantao>>yes
Mike Black>>yes
Roxanne Oddone>>yes
Shana Jones>>yes
Sheena Malhotra>>Who was a character you found yourself identifying with in the film and why?
Jessica Peterson>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>VB, MM, KU
Crysol Dominguez>>!
Joi Pinney>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>Jessica P, Joi, CD
Natalia Escuti>>!
Roxanne Oddone>>!
Teresa Worrell>>Victor, I related to his anger
Sheena Malhotra>>CS, NE
Tamika Miller>>!
Evelyn Cazun-Rodriguez>>!
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Shana Jones>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>TM, EC-R
Sheena Malhotra>>SJ
Jessica Peterson>>I identified with Yutaka and Hugh the most
Crysol Dominguez>>victor, because it is tiersome trying to explain myself to everyone..
Barbara Abantao>>!
Natalia Escuti>>i felt identify with the latino old man because he talked about racism within our races and it's true
Joi Pinney>>i identified with Victor, he was just so passionate with what he was talking about
Natalia Escuti>>we discrimante our own people pn how light or dark our brown skin is and we put them in categories among ourselves
Evelyn Cazun-Rodriguez>>I thought the film was very interesting and i think i kind of felt a lil like all except the white man. In many cases i've felt like when i go to a store i am watched and followed because i am latino or not white.
Tamika Miller>>david, because i see things they way he sees them and I'm black.
Jessica Peterson>>!
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Sheena Malhotra>>VB. That's great. I think that David had a lot of views... that many of us hold about one group of people or the other... the well-meaning, why can't we all just get along worldview?
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Natalia Escuti>>!
Ashlee Burke>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>MW, KU
Sharareh Zarabi>>!
Shana Jones>>I agree with Victoria. It was easiest for me to understand David because my white privilege has kept me from relating to the other people.
Sheena Malhotra>>JP,
Sheena Malhotra>>NE, AB, SZ
Jessica Peterson>>I feel one of the most important things said in the film was from Hugh
Sheena Malhotra>>CS
Ashlee Burke>>I guess that I would idenify with the white man david because I am white. However, I found it interesting to understand what other races and cultures experience in America
Sheena Malhotra>>JB
Jessica Peterson>>when he asked David Lee to not give up on David Christansen
Sharareh Zarabi>>I agree with connie about the white guy being very angry, I would not identify myself with him
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Sheena Malhotra>>KU
Jessica Peterson>>!!
Roxanne Oddone>>!
Natalia Escuti>>i also felt identify with the old man latino becuase he brought up a good point about what being an american means....we, the people born in the "american" continent should also be called americans...we all are "north americans, central americans, and south americans)
Tamika Miller>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>JP
Ashlee Burke>>!
Jessica Peterson>>I don't believe David was the bad guy
Sheena Malhotra>>CS, TM, AB
Sheena Malhotra>>MW
Jessica Peterson>>or hateful
Roxanne Oddone>>!
Ashlee Burke>>I don't think David was the one with the most angry in that session. I think Vic expressed a lot of anger
Sharareh Zarabi>>connie I'm agreeing with you, that's what I meant by anger
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Natalia Escuti>>!
Crysol Dominguez>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>JP. I don't think he was hateful. But he was ignorant... and having a really hard time seeing that the reality he was experiencing may not be the same as the reality others were living
Teresa Worrell>>!
Tamika Miller>>i had a hard time identlifying with the black men in the group and how they felt about white people and I'm black, but when they started talking about other races going against eachother I could relate
Sheena Malhotra>>RO, NE, CD, KU
Sheena Malhotra>>tw
Jessica Peterson>>!
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Teresa Worrell>>I related to Victor anger towards the white guy because he wasn't being heard until he yelled
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Sheena Malhotra>>JP
Roxanne Oddone>>I was going to say the same thing...I do not think he was being hateful but just wanting to be heard and very, maybe over opinionated.
Jessica Peterson>>I think though he was ignorant he didn't have to know what it was to be white
Sheena Malhotra>>TW. That brings up a very good point actually.
Crysol Dominguez>>i just wanted to say i really identified with all of the men at levels, especially when they spoke about what it meant to be "American" and the :"American Ethnicity"
Natalia Escuti>>i don;t think David was "hateful"..he was misinterpreting the feelings of others...he was not aware of such hurt among other races towards the americans
Barbara Abantao>>!
Joi Pinney>>!
Jessica Peterson>>he didn't have to know the privilages that came with it
Sheena Malhotra>>I think sometimes people don't like Victor's anger... because they feel that he was "out of control" or too upset, unable to have a "civilized" conversation. But I think he was very articulate.... and yes, he ended up yelling... because it was the only way he could get heard
Jessica Peterson>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>BA, Joi, KU, JP
Joi Pinney>>i think that it was very interesting how David could say he had friends of different races but acted as if he had never really had a close realtionship with someone of another ethnicity
Ashlee Burke>>!
Shannon Brazee>>!
Teresa Worrell>>White people we just think all great....The white guy was smiling until lost it
Jessica Peterson>>well Victor stated that the reason he was so angry was the fact that he was being denied his humanity
Sheena Malhotra>>AB, SB
Barbara Abantao>>I can relate with David Lee, it is hard to explain how racism can still exist but, the way to find some solution is just by knowing that the idea of racism can no longer be just swept under the rug since it is an idea that we all have to interact with people that are already close to us like our neighbors or co workers
Mike Black>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>MB
Ashlee Burke>>I found it interesting when Vic mentioned how when people say "gen ethnic" they mean why can't they just to white or human. He then mentions how white and human mean the same thing
Shannon Brazee>>I interperted David to be very ignorant, I think that it was a sort of shock to him in terms of having a newly found perspective on the experiences and opinions of other cultures
Mike Black>>I don't know if it felt like this to anyone else, but the whole video seemed more like an intervention than anything else.
Jessica Peterson>>!!
Sheena Malhotra>>JP
Jessica Peterson>>David Christansen lived in a sort of dual reality
Shana Jones>>I also agree Mike
Jessica Peterson>>on one hand his father was a racist, and on the other he lives in America a great country of opportunity and hard work
Sheena Malhotra>>What do you think was the real breakthrough point for David C.?
Jessica Peterson>>in one hand he hears blacks are lazy they can't do anything but in the other hand he feels that anyone can make it in America, that it takes hard work
Mike Black>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>JP. THat's a very interesting observation actually. I think he was having a hard time reconciling those two.
Sheena Malhotra>>MW, MB
Jessica Peterson>>so he created his own reality that if any "colored" individual doesnt make it its because they didnt work for it
Teresa Worrell>>!
Mike Black>>I think the breakthrough point for david was when they were talking about his daughters and affermative action
Sheena Malhotra>>KU, TW
Joi Pinney>>!
Crysol Dominguez>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>not earlier?
Tamika Miller>>!
Teresa Worrell>>I think his break through was to see how creul the whiteman has been to humanity
Jessica Peterson>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>JP, CD, TM
Joi Pinney>>i agree with MB, that's what i think too
Jessica Peterson>>I feel there were two parts, one when Victor stated "I cam work with him now" and when Hugh asks that no one give up on David C.
Ashlee Burke>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>AB
Crysol Dominguez>>I think his breakthrough was when he realized that the other mens fears and emotion was NOT unfounded as he kept saying , and that ther were real events foundations for the way they felt and lived..
Tamika Miller>>i think it was when they asked him to just image it being possible for racisim to still exist, once he got the thought of what if he was able to have a small breakthrough
Sheena Malhotra>>JP. Yes... I think that earlier point is an important one. As CD points out... that was the point where he started really hearing their stories. And almost thinking about it not just logically... but also emotionally... what would it mean if these stories are true?
Ashlee Burke>>The only thing that I think about David C. is that he said he would stop racism when it was in his presence, however, Victor and other members of the group never stopped racism when it was in thier presene
Sheena Malhotra>>JB, MW
Natalia Escuti>>i think he broke down not only after hearing veryone else's experiences but when he heard it from the other white man as well
Jessica Peterson>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>AB. I don't think you can presume that... and in fact... I would almost assume the opposite
Sheena Malhotra>>JP
Natalia Escuti>>he said that back in the day they were no awareness of the hurt...becuase "it didn't happen to you or it didn't happen where you lived"
Sheena Malhotra>>JB. You're right. It takes a lot to breakthrough a lifetime of conditioning and a worldview
Sheena Malhotra>>KU
Shannon Brazee>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>SB
Jessica Peterson>>That's why they were all there, they all admitted they were guilty of racism within their groups
Shannon Brazee>>I agree with Megan...I don't think the David's actual break through came until the issues became personal, and he saw that it effects his life and his family...as well as their future.
Evelyn Cazun-Rodriguez>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>what is the one thing you think will stay with you from this film?
Sheena Malhotra>>ECR
Crysol Dominguez>>!
Joi Pinney>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>CD
Ashlee Burke>>!
Melody Himidian>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>
Sharareh Zarabi>>!
Natalia Escuti>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>I'm opening it up... so ALL of you can post
Barbara Abantao>>!
Evelyn Cazun-Rodriguez>>i agree with jessica about them admitting racism. I think we all are a little racist. We hate been looked down on and those who look down on us we hate or we hold grudges against.
Sheena Malhotra>>KU
Teresa Worrell>>Victor and how it's important to voice against racism whenever needed
Ashlee Burke>>To never stop studying and learning about other cultures and races becasue information about others is a powerful force
Melody Himidian>>to be aware of the struggles of people around me and to speak up if I feel offended or if someone else has been offended.
Evelyn Cazun-Rodriguez>>we are so caught up with the things that affect us that we never stop and think how we can be affecting others.
Crysol Dominguez>>I will stay with the question of am I really an "American" and have i lost my heritage ethnicity to belong to this "American Ethnicity". and will I always hesitate to say i am American?
Joi Pinney>>i think one thing that will stay with me is that i need to stick up for other people, if i hear someone making a comment or even if i make a comment i need to make others aware that it's not okay and that we are just keeping racisim circulating as long as we do that
Sheena Malhotra>>KU. The question is ... what do you think you'll remember/learn from this film... something that will stay with you a year from now?
Jessica Peterson>>That we all have a responsibility not to ourselves but to everyone in society
Barbara Abantao>>That we are all dealing with racism in our own way especially if we are confronted with them being unconsciously being part of the plan of going over our everyday lives..
Natalia Escuti>>that to try to solve this we need to educate our children about what race means...David did not have that educaiton from his father that's why the attitude he had towards the rest of the othger races
Tamika Miller>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>JB. That's a great quote... and I also like the struggle around the term "American" that CD is bringing up
Natalia Escuti>>!
Renae Flores>>I think we all have our racist issues to deal with and this film really opened my eyes....
Sheena Malhotra>>TM
Sharareh Zarabi>>To be less afraid to speak up, and at the same time be aware of the hardships others go through. sometimes when thing seem insignificant to us they may be really affecting others
Evelyn Cazun-Rodriguez>>to add to crysols comment. i think i've always hesitated saying i'm american. i always says latino but born in l.a. american. i feel like if i say american i'll loose my heritage
Sheena Malhotra>>KU, NE
Wendell Smith>>Natalia is right we need to educate our children in order for things to change it starts by educating the children and then maybe they can do a better job than we have
Shannon Brazee>>From this film, I think that I learned more about internalizing the opinions, thoughts and experiences of what other cultures seem to endure. I also was able to see the importance of educating oneself about other cultures and how they feel they are viewed and treated within society.
Natalia Escuti>>also i will remember that people can understand each other w\if we send out "clear" messages and try to put on other people's shoes; try to undertand their own personal experiences, and where they come from
Tamika Miller>>that maybe I need to look outside the box more in my surroundings and not be so nieve about racsim toward my race and not always putting the blame for our short comings on just my race of people for not tryinh harder to get what they want
Sheena Malhotra>>MW. Yes. That's a huge point. To "call it out" when you see it happening... to stand up to it.
Mike Black>>I think that I will remember how racism doesn't need to be violent, it can be something as simple as trying to lump people of all races into one phrase like, "human beings". I never thought of this word as having any connotation to race, I thought that was an interesting concept
Shana Jones>>To be more sensitive to the feelings of other people and try to educate people who do not care about racial issues
Jessica Peterson>>!
Sharareh Zarabi>>i like MB's point
Sheena Malhotra>>MB. Great point. I think usually when we think of racism... we conjure up images of the KKK. But it is a lot subtler than that... and a lot more everyday!
Crysol Dominguez>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>jp
Sheena Malhotra>>cd
Teresa Worrell>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>tw
Natalia Escuti>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>ne
Sheena Malhotra>>ku
Natalia Escuti>>many times we see what we want to see and are oblivious to the real problems
Jessica Peterson>>two quotes from victor stick in my mind "I'm not ging to trust you until you are as willing to be affected and transformed by my experience as I am by yours everyday"
Sheena Malhotra>>JP. Excellent quote
Sheena Malhotra>>vb
Jessica Peterson>>and also "When we become American we KNOW that we are dying from it"
Crysol Dominguez>>I just want to point out something I noticed: alot of people remembered Victor from the video, but non of us can remember the name of the Chinese American (I am guilty also)...like he said I" I am invisible to you"..and he was to us to!
Jessica Peterson>>David Lee
Teresa Worrell>>I never claimed being Irish, just American, now I want to embrace my heritage and explore a new meaning of what it means to be an American
Sheena Malhotra>>good point
Ashlee Burke>>!
Natalia Escuti>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>AB
Ashlee Burke>>I found it interesting when the Chinese-American man said how asians and whites are seen as economically similar that they are the model miniority
Jessica Peterson>>!
Tamika Miller>>!
Natalia Escuti>>another comment David n
Sheena Malhotra>>Okay... I want to do my spiel on the use of the term "colored". Please DO NOT use it to refer to people of color. It has a racist history and is a very laden term. Use instead "of color"... so "women of color", or "people of color".
Sheena Malhotra>>JP, KU, TM
Jessica Peterson>>AB that raises i feel a very important of the film, the notion that we (those deemed a minority) will work all of our lives to this mythical level of ideal whiteness and we never will
Jessica Peterson>>and this furthers racism and oppression and prejudices
Sheena Malhotra>>IT is the "mythical norm" that Audre Lorde talks about in her reading
Tamika Miller>>i found it interesting that everyone was ganging up on David, but not once did they take in considerating where he grew up. I think what areas you grow up in play a big part in how you see racism. I grew up in an area where everybody got along. I didn't see racsim til I came to LA
Jessica Peterson>>those whom somehow are given a leg up based upon skin color (a point raised by Loren) pits us against one another
Jessica Peterson>>Racism isn't a "white" thing it's an everyone thing
Shannon Brazee>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>TM. Yes, of course. Where we grow up, the political climate in our families (racist or not)... all play into how we see the world.
Ashlee Burke>>!
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Sheena Malhotra>>But that can't be a justification for anything really, beyond a point.
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Sheena Malhotra>>SB, AB, KU
Teresa Worrell>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>TW
Tamika Miller>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>TM
Ashlee Burke>>I agree with JP that racism includes everyone. White people are not he only one's who display racism
Natalia Escuti>>personal question that i observe all the time: why is it that when whites are called whites is acceptable but when blacks are called black is offensive...we are all people of different color
Sheena Malhotra>>AB, JP. Let's unpack that notion a little
Teresa Worrell>>I am glad they focused on David, I too grew up in a racist household, it the effect runs deep, personally I need all the help I can get to raise my awareness
Ashlee Burke>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>NE. Actually "black" is not an offensive term. Some may prefer to be called "African American" just as some whites may prefer "Euro-American" or "Caucasian" ....
Shannon Brazee>>This video brought to mind the fact that a lot of minorities compensate themselves which ends up being very detrimental in terms of who they really are. I don't think that we can ever achieve a peacful world unless we all feel we can be who we really are.
Natalia Escuti>>I see
Teresa Worrell>>and those men certainly did do that for me
Ashlee Burke>>Well, that the Chinese-american man was afarid of African American males
Sheena Malhotra>>The question that AB brought up... are we all racist... might be better phrased, "Are we all prejudiced?"
Tamika Miller>>being in an environment where it's not but you are taught it is one thing, but you really don't trully know what it is until you experience it and when you are in an area where you can't experience you will end up like David, so i'm not trying to justify it, but hopefully you understyand better where he's coming from and why he is the way he is
Shannon Brazee>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>To that... I would probably answer "yes"
Jessica Peterson>>!
Joi Pinney>>!
Barbara Abantao>>!
Ashlee Burke>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>But racism may be defined as "prejudice + power" ... so that means that you have to have some sort of power... personal or institutional in order to enact your prejudice... which is what makes it racism
Ashlee Burke>>I believe that we all are. We all hold views not only of races but of sexes. How certain people should act and behave due to their sex and race. We hold these ideas and fears with us even if they are proved to be wrong
Jessica Peterson>>I feel that though prejudices are nothing to be proud of, the negative connotation associated with them keep many people with prejudices from admitting they have them, and because of that the prejudices in society continue to fester
Sheena Malhotra>>So... in that case... it's harder for minorities to enact racism... than it is for whites. HOWEVER... that is not to say that when people who are in a minority group have access to some power... that they can't enact racism ...
Jessica Peterson>>!!!
Shannon Brazee>>In response to AB, I think that the Chinese American may have seemed afraid...but you have to take into consideration the cultural differences that exist...he was probably brought up in a passive, more reserved manner, which may make him seem afraid...or he had the opportunity to express himself, and really didn't know how.
Sheena Malhotra>>okay... comments... JP, JB, Joi, BA, AB
Natalia Escuti>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>MW
Crysol Dominguez>>?
Barbara Abantao>>Yes, it is hard to realize that many of us can have prejudice in us and if given the power to do so, we cannot help what we subconsciously believe in
Sheena Malhotra>>NE, CD
Jessica Peterson>>Going on your statement Professor, one interesting point made in the film about that was" when the minorities are prejudiced against each other the 'white man' prevails, and when white men are racist then it is again the white man who prevails"
Crysol Dominguez>>what is the name of the Chinese American man from the video? Lee?
Joi Pinney>>i also agree that we are prejudice, we make generalizations about people without really getting to know them
Jessica Peterson>>David Lee
Crysol Dominguez>>thank you
Sheena Malhotra>>BA.. yes. JB. yes to the prejudice in all of us. But I'm saying that not everyone has the power to enact that ... so racism isn't something that everyone can enact as easily....
Barbara Abantao>>agree
Tamika Miller>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>JP. Yes... that brings up the advantage of the dominant group.
Teresa Worrell>>?
Sheena Malhotra>>When minorities fight each other... the dominant group wins... it's the classic "divide and rule" strategy
Sheena Malhotra>>TM, TW
Teresa Worrell>>So is prejudice and white privilege amount to racist?
Sheena Malhotra>>TW. Yes. Pretty much.
Natalia Escuti>>i think any group race that can have access to power "could" enact racism...we are all socialize since we are children in building certain stereotypes and predujices and saddly we use these to label and judge people...everyone has a bit of racism withing themselves ...and this point was mentioned in the film by the latin men
Tamika Miller>>you use the phrase "power to enact it", does that mean that in order for racsim to be present we have to allow it to happen. we have to give some the power to use it against us?
Sheena Malhotra>>NE. Yes. That's true.
Crysol Dominguez>>!
Jessica Peterson>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>But I also want us to hold one more thing in sight ... which is historical trajectories of groups. Meaning... that when a white person enacts racism... it has all the weight/fear of a history and institutional power behind it. When a member of a minority group does something racist (when they gain some access to power)... it has a very different effect.
Sheena Malhotra>>CD, JB, JP
Teresa Worrell>>?
Sheena Malhotra>>TM. I think that people can have power over us... without us "giving it over" to them
Teresa Worrell>>how so?
Sheena Malhotra>>TW
Crysol Dominguez>>we all have ingrained in our mind stereotypes of the differet types of people that surround us, we are all prejudice. and when we have the chance we must admit we can be judgemental, even if we don't know it.
Ashlee Burke>>!
Barbara Abantao>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>TW. are you asking how people can have power over us?
Sheena Malhotra>>AB
Ashlee Burke>>I agree with you professor that in the American society a lot of groups do have power over others, but we just don't notice it because it has always been that way
Sheena Malhotra>>BA
Jessica Peterson>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>JP
Teresa Worrell>>it has a very different effect...how so?
Natalia Escuti>>!
Barbara Abantao>>Well, since we cannot really stop the racist situation right at the moment ... if we want both parties to understnad each other ... but they do mention to give solution in the little situations just like baby steps. This way we are not ignoring the problem but instead acknowledging it and correcting it clearly for both sides.
Shannon Brazee>>!
Tamika Miller>>!
Jessica Peterson>>I agree with the professor, the thought of white superiority is so ingrained within society that it has stuck...in the times of slavery the whites were outnumbered, and even in society today white is not the majority
Sheena Malhotra>>TW. Okay... I think that it often doesn't carry the same weight behind it. Sometimes it can be retaliatory, sometimes it can be a form of resistance (albeit questionable)... but it doesn't have the kind of far-reaching consequences that a member of a historically dominant group has when he/she enacts racism.
Jessica Peterson>>!
Jessica Peterson>>
Sheena Malhotra>>SB, TM, MW
Sheena Malhotra>>JP
Jessica Peterson>>I also find it sad that many white/caucasian/European people in scoiety are made to apologize for the ills not done by them
Sheena Malhotra>>okay... let's switch metaphors for a minute
Tamika Miller>>JB, I would agree with that. I think it would be more on the person then the race and I would add it's selective also.
Sheena Malhotra>>think about gender...
Jessica Peterson>>and that a system of reveresed racism has been enacted in society
Shannon Brazee>>I chose an article by Tim Wise that also points out the racism that exists in American, and how it has gone on for centuries...yet Americans continue to praise and celebrate those who have actually done horrific, racist things...but when Americans hear what is happening to Americans, (especially Whites) in Iraq, they are quick to call them bararians or evil
Barbara Abantao>>?
Sheena Malhotra>>when men objectify women... one of the huge problems with it is that it has the ultimate threat of rape & violence behind it... the ultimate objectification. when women objectify men... still not okay... but definitely not the same
Natalia Escuti>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>NE
Teresa Worrell>>I think economically the effects are equally as damaging, either way the racisit or sexist card plays
Sheena Malhotra>>So JP... I am actually asking you to look at this so-called "reverse racism" and see how it might be different. Not saying it's okay. But wanting us to distinguish between that and the more "conventional' forms of racism we see
Natalia Escuti>>we could say there's racism within races (between man and woman)..in latin families the woman's place in the house is lower than the man in the sense they don;t get some "priviliges"
Sheena Malhotra>>NE. Yes of course.
Sheena Malhotra>>okay... let's just stop here for a minute
Sheena Malhotra>>I want us to take a 5 minute break... and to go back and read some of our posts upto this point.
Sheena Malhotra>>And to look at how this discussion... which was meant to be on "white privilege"... has become so much about "white victimage" and "reverse racism"
Sheena Malhotra>>when we return in 5 mins... i'd like us to pick up the McIntosh piece
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Jessica Peterson>>!
Natalia Escuti>>!
Barbara Abantao>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>JP, NE, BA
Ashlee Burke>>!
Jessica Peterson>>I wanted to make one last point on the film if i could
Barbara Abantao>>I think the whole point is not to put hierarchy on who gets the most prejudiced, but it is to realize that everyone at this point is being prejudiced by others as well as we unconsciously prejudice them at the same time
Natalia Escuti>>which McIntosh piece?
Sheena Malhotra>>Peggy McIntosh
Sheena Malhotra>>JP
Barbara Abantao>>that comment was for McIntosh
Ashlee Burke>>I found the 15th point that McIntosh made about how "I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group." to be a profound statement
Sheena Malhotra>>JB
Ashlee Burke>>becasue being white I never have to stick up for my racial group or make comments about it
Jessica Peterson>>the moment when David L. was speaking to Yutaka about his prejudices towards the japanese and their previous atroscitites and how he viewed them as a people, and Yutaka, not defensive or angry acknowledged and agreed with David
Shana Jones>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>KU, SJ
Jessica Peterson>>!
Sharareh Zarabi>>!
Renae Flores>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>I also want to hear from folks who have not been "speaking" upto now in the class
Shana Jones>>I agree wtih Ashlee, being white doesnt give the same experience
Sheena Malhotra>>JP, SZ, RF
Wendell Smith>>!
Jessica Peterson>>I agree with JB but I think the priviliages are small ones
Jessica Peterson>>ones many dont have
Renae Flores>>I agree with you Jacqueline...there are plenty of white people who are in poverty and who have hard lives for other reasons
Barbara Abantao>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>WS, MM
Jessica Peterson>>not privilages of being born with a silver spoon inyour mouth
Sharareh Zarabi>>I actually felt a lot of pointa were exaggerated, but I had never really thought about white privilege and there is definitely truth to it
Sheena Malhotra>>BA
Barbara Abantao>>And it is those small previleges that add up in the end of the day ... 365 days in a year...and so on
Sheena Malhotra>>JB. I would say that you are conflating two different dimensions here... race and class.
Sheena Malhotra>>a person can be privileged on one axis... and oppressed on another
Tamika Miller>>!
Wendell Smith>>what I took from the reading is that wihites don't have to put up with a lot of things other races do and don't understand why people consider them privileged
Sheena Malhotra>>so someone who is poor and white... may not experience class privilege... in fact, experiences class oppression... but that does not mean that they do not enjoy ANY white privilege!
Wendell Smith>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>KA, JB, TM
Sheena Malhotra>>KU, WS
Tamika Miller>>i completely agree with your comment prof. you summed up how i feel about being privileged on one end and oppessed on the other
Sheena Malhotra>>CS
Wendell Smith>>I think whites may not enjoy all privileges they don't have to go over the same hurdles than somebody who is not white has to and that is directly related to their skin color
Crysol Dominguez>>I
Natalia Escuti>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>MW, CD, NE, JB
Mike Black>>!
Melody Himidian>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>MB, MH
Teresa Worrell>>!
Crysol Dominguez>>when we say privileged, some hear"rich, famous, etc..." when i hear " not ignored, not spoken to slowly, not asked where i was born, and stuff like like"
Mike Black>>I can relate to this topic. I used to dye my hair. I noticed people treated me differently like that. I tried to get on a plane at the airport and I had to stand in long search lines. I noticed that the only other people in the line were people of color. There was no reason for it
Shannon Brazee>>!
Barbara Abantao>>cd, I agree
Sheena Malhotra>>JB... of course... that was just a somewhat whimsical list that she put up... of things that applied to her... ALL of them will obviously not apply to ALL white people. But I would argue that everyone who is white enjoys SOME form of white privilege.
Sheena Malhotra>>VB, TW
Jessica Peterson>>!
Wendell Smith>>!
Natalia Escuti>>when you are a majority in any group unfortunely you have more privileges..i do not think white really realize of all those privileges and how minorities are so often deprive from them....then again..what if another grour race was on top...what would happen to white privileges?....i am Not white but i see sometimes being powerful pays a price...we are racist towards white in many ways ourselves
Sharareh Zarabi>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>JP, WS, SZ
Mike Black>>!
Melody Himidian>>I think that the article made a good point in regards to how white people could do away with some of the mythical norm by choosing to not take incentives and the priveledges they are offered and instead recognize the priviledge and expose it. Some people don't want to do this.
Sheena Malhotra>>MB
Renae Flores>>!
Jessica Peterson>>I think the term privilage is being taken out of context
Jessica Peterson>>it doesnt have to be huge
Teresa Worrell>>I agree with all the stuff the author said...had a hard time withbeing protect from hostilites and violence until I thought about our police dept.
Wendell Smith>>In response to VB I understand what your saying but on some level being white excludes you from having to deal with some of the problems other races do
Jessica Peterson>>the ability to drive your car at night in a nice neghborhood not being pulled over
Jessica Peterson>>or being able to walk into a store and know people dont see you as a theif
Jessica Peterson>>etc.
Mike Black>>I think that white people are more privelaged overall in this country. The main reason for this is because most people who make the laws and hold authority positions are white. People tend to favor those who are more like them.
Ashlee Burke>>!
Teresa Worrell>>Being gay I have experienced violence, but never by the police
Wendell Smith>>how not
Crysol Dominguez>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>VB... I think we would have to take all your self-described characteristics and see if being black, for example... might add to the oppressive experiences you might have encountered to really answer that question...
Ashlee Burke>>I agree with MB. However, whites are not shy to turn away these privileges.
Sheena Malhotra>>RF
Sharareh Zarabi>>I kind of agree with VB! the privileges that white people have are the little things, the important stuff are the individual differences of human beings
Barbara Abantao>>VB, you have a good point
Ashlee Burke>>!
Jessica Peterson>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>AB
Barbara Abantao>>!
Ashlee Burke>>To answer Connie's question. I think not all white women have the ability to speak in front of an all male group and obtain respect from them
Teresa Worrell>>we do, our white skin
Jessica Peterson>>First off I think there are very few powerful male groups any WOMAN can talk to because though they mnay not see a race they see gender
Shana Jones>>i think that was the point of the article
Jessica Peterson>>we cannot just be a strong person, its a strong woman as if somehow the throwing in the term woman makes it sound better
Renae Flores>>I was pretty upset about #19 in the list...If a cop pulls you over, chances are you did something wrong....I work for law enforcement and still get pulled over for disobeying traffic laws like everyone else, regardless of race
Sheena Malhotra>>VB. I don't think anyone is denying that YOU experience discrimination. Nor are we arguing that NO white people experience discrimination. Of course they do. But we're arguing that race is one more form of discrimination... and the fact that you don't have to deal with that is in some ways a "privilege".
Sheena Malhotra>>BA
Barbara Abantao>>Whites cannot turn down these privileges because they serve some conviniece in the end of the day
Sheena Malhotra>>CS
Wendell Smith>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>WS
Shana Jones>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>VB, SJ
Jessica Peterson>>!
Jessica Peterson>>!!!!
Shana Jones>>I completely agree with you BA. there is no reason for white people to turn down these privileges, they benefit them!
Wendell Smith>> I think it would be almost impossible for white privilege to go away because it is embedded into our country and a lot of whites wouldn't recognize that they have privileges that others do not
Shannon Brazee>>?
Crysol Dominguez>> !!
Renae Flores>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>VB, CS, JB... what might be a better term ... in place of "white privilege"
Sheena Malhotra>>JP
Barbara Abantao>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>VB, CS, SB, CD, RF
Shannon Brazee>>Would anyone say that many minorities have access to these privileges, but often times refuse them because they would be labeled as "sell-outs"
Teresa Worrell>>WS I think us white people need alot of help in seeing our privileges as privileges
Tamika Miller>>!
Jessica Peterson>>In response to the comment of Compton, we should look at the episteomology of why she would be discriminated against, this in no way excuses it
Crysol Dominguez>>if VB goes to compton and get discriminated, it will not be a life altering event, as if I went to apply for a job anywhere and got discriminated..then i can't pay my bills..
Renae Flores>>Aren't white people "privileged" because they are a majority population, not because they are white?
Wendell Smith>>!
Natalia Escuti>>!
Sharareh Zarabi>>!
Jessica Peterson>>!!!!!
Jessica Peterson>>I did
Shana Jones>>that is a really good point RF
Natalia Escuti>>in response t Shannon..personally i know if we have the opportunity to certain privileges we would use them
Sheena Malhotra>>VB, CS. the examples you are bringing up... of being white in a space dominated by a minority group... those are singular experiences... but for most minorities ... THAT is the world they walk in. Do you know what I'm saying?
Shannon Brazee>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>RF... yes... it's about being a dominant group, a majority
Sheena Malhotra>>WS, NE, SZ, JP
Barbara Abantao>>!!
Sharareh Zarabi>>I completely agree with RF! maybe whites are priviliged because they are the minority.
Sheena Malhotra>>KU, SB
Sheena Malhotra>>BA
Tamika Miller>>yes i would agree with that. i talk advantage of these things and I get it all the time. Some won't take the opportunities of advantage
Teresa Worrell>>my racial group was being made confident, comfortable and oblivious to other groups
Shannon Brazee>>It seems as though people who go from being under-privledged to priviledged, sort of dwell or hold on to how they were so disadvantaged...yet somehow overcame the barriers, and is now living happily ever after...
Jessica Peterson>>A main fact is this
Jessica Peterson>>For hundreds of year the world has been taught to revere white skin
Jessica Peterson>>to be below it, but to look up to it
Barbara Abantao>>"Invisible Knapsack" and I forgot who mentioned it but I agree also that these "privileges" are not limited to whites only since they don't really live it. But anyone can gain access to this "invisible knapsack" if they wish to be the "sell-out" or at least that is what others would calll them
Crysol Dominguez>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>SB, JB. I think that comment feels a little dismissive of what people actually struggle against and overcome.
Jessica Peterson>>shouldnt they have a right to hold onto that?
Sheena Malhotra>>CD
Shannon Brazee>>!
Jessica Peterson>>!!!
Barbara Abantao>>"live it" meaning they did not have to consider themselves victims until it was realized
Tamika Miller>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>JB, SB, JP
Sheena Malhotra>>TM
Teresa Worrell>>!
Sharareh Zarabi>>!
Crysol Dominguez>>BA, but those who sell out die inside..and that is not a way to happiness
Sheena Malhotra>>TW
Jessica Peterson>>My step mother picked cotton as a child...actually picked cotton and is now obtaining her PhD
Sheena Malhotra>>SZ
Sheena Malhotra>>
Wendell Smith>>I have a question for everyone in general if there is no white privilege why won't we ever see a president that in not a white male. Some people may say that they would love to see a person of color in the white house or someone of a different race but the majority of people in the US would not stand for it.
Jessica Peterson>>her having lived a life like that made her push harder then many others
Jessica Peterson>>and I could or would NEVER ask or expect her to give her struggles up
Barbara Abantao>>agree and that is my point if they wish to wear that "invisible knapsack"
Sheena Malhotra>>WS. good question.
Sharareh Zarabi>>I think that 'priviliged' and 'white privilege' have two VERY different meanings
Sheena Malhotra>>MW
Natalia Escuti>>!
Barbara Abantao>>to entitle themselves to those conviniences
Jessica Peterson>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>JP
Crysol Dominguez>>!
Jessica Peterson>>What;s important to understand and comprehend is that there is a HUGE divide out there in reguards to race
Tamika Miller>>i would have to agree with BA comment. If you can get ahold of that knapsack then you have the ablitiy to have advantage. In the McIntosh reading I didn't agree that women are always at a disavantage. I feel because I am a woman I've more opportunities given to me
Jessica Peterson>>and we need to understand why that is?
Jessica Peterson>>because its an accepted norm,
Jessica Peterson>>a norm people think is too hard to change
Shannon Brazee>>In response to BA...I totally agree. I think that minorities accomodate the Euro-American life-style...because if they don't they will remain under-privelidged...now lets say they change their names, to sound more American, or to accomodate the English language, maybe they'll be called into the job interview, etc...minorities are constantly trying to establish themselves with the American dream, and if they fail to oh...assimilate they will never gain access to those Priviledges.
Teresa Worrell>>White people have set the racism ball in motion....white privilege exist and has done horrif damage to all other races, my question is what is it that I can do to change?
Jessica Peterson>>!
Sharareh Zarabi>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>TW. good question... what can we do to change it
Barbara Abantao>>!
Tamika Miller>>!
Teresa Worrell>>I am white and I just don't know that answer
Sheena Malhotra>>I want to answer that by first laying out the characteristics of white privilege... how does it work? how does it maintain and perpetuate itself?
Natalia Escuti>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>JP, SZ, BA, TM
Sheena Malhotra>>NE'
Jessica Peterson>>I think SB's comment kind of minimizes the struggles of so many people if it were that easy, if the 'minorites' could do it I am sure they would
Ashlee Burke>>!
Ashlee Burke>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>BC
Shannon Brazee>>!
Ashlee Burke>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>AB
Crysol Dominguez>>BA, that is the question that David Lee asks: how much of ourselves do we give up to be "american" (or human or white)?
Sharareh Zarabi>> I think the best thing to do is to conciously make an effort to free ourselves from judging others, and attempt to stop seeing levels or classes and just include everyone as part of the human race, not the white race orthe...
Natalia Escuti>>i traveled around the world and i have not seen white racism as i saw it here....evryone treat each other differently with more respect and w/o much predujidism...i think is more about being a powerful nation than been white?
Ashlee Burke>>White privilege I think works in the way that people see you and the first thing they think is this view of a white female
Ashlee Burke>>holding all these stereotypes and power
Jessica Peterson>>!
Tamika Miller>>i think the one thing we can do is educate ourselves and teach future generations on being aware of it so it can start a course of change
Sheena Malhotra>>BC. okay... that's one that Aida Hurtado writes about as the game... constantly pretend ignorance, that you don't get it... so that everyone else has to spend all their time "educating" you, making you see how it is for them...
Barbara Abantao>>recognize the problem and try your best to understand why it happens not just what happened right at that moment
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Sheena Malhotra>>VB, KU, JP
Jessica Peterson>>I think a major aspect of white privilage that is so prevelant in my mind is the ability to say "I'm American" and have it be acceptable
Jessica Peterson>>not really ever questioned
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Crysol Dominguez>>!!
Ashlee Burke>>!
Jessica Peterson>>but by not looking at it, it shoves it under the rug
Sheena Malhotra>>The other part of whiteness as JP is pointing out ... is its conflation with "American", "human"... i.e. it maintains its power by being the NORM
Jessica Peterson>>maybe by sheding light upon it, further dissection can take place
Sheena Malhotra>>CD, AB
Crysol Dominguez>>VB, that is just putting the responsibility back on the oppressed...
Barbara Abantao>>CD agree, been there done that and to survive it you still have to know those advantages so that you will not fall prey yourself
Ashlee Burke>>I agree with VB that whites are not the whole "problem" to racism. They should not be the foucal point
Sheena Malhotra>>JP. And then there's next point... whiteness works through its INVISIBILITY.
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Jessica Peterson>>!!
Sheena Malhotra>>JP... so yes... one of the solutions is to MAKE IT VISIBLE. Call it out where you see it. Unpack the assumptions with which one moves through the world.
Shannon Brazee>>!
Teresa Worrell>>Why not VB
Sheena Malhotra>>JP
Sheena Malhotra>>SB, JB
Jessica Peterson>>not palying devils advocate but look at racism
Sheena Malhotra>>KU
Shannon Brazee>>JP...the point is...that minorities do in fact struggle...struggle so hard to attain the things that in Western Society are considered to be great...and it is an ongoing struggle that will continue unless priviledges, racism, etc...are confronted, recognized, acknowledged . As Crysol mentioned...about Lee, that we give up a lot of ourselves to be so called "American"
Jessica Peterson>>!!
Jessica Peterson>>Don't take the blame personally, Im sure you arent a racist but look at the heart of racism
Shannon Brazee>>!
Crysol Dominguez>>!
Jessica Peterson>>it was something started by whites as a tool os oppression and domination
Teresa Worrell>>We started with slavery, the japanese war camps, even tried to get a camp for gay men with aids
Jessica Peterson>>these ideals we have in our heads that we have in society are age old "white" ideals
Wendell Smith>>!
Crysol Dominguez>>Everyone is guilty of being racist..this is just about who holds the power..
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Teresa Worrell>>careful JP i'm old...lol
Natalia Escuti>>exactly i agree with Crysol
Sheena Malhotra>>VB. I think there's a huge historical reason for the roots of racism as we see it in our society... where it was the white folks enacting racism on people of color. And that was not that far back in our history. But the fall out of that TODAY is that institutionally... white people continue to benefit from that history ...
Jessica Peterson>>ahaha worry teresa
Sheena Malhotra>>WS
Jessica Peterson>>sory*
Jessica Peterson>>**sorry
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Jessica Peterson>>I cannot type today :)
Renae Flores>>!
Crysol Dominguez>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>RF
Renae Flores>>It seems like the main focus of "white privilege" is the problem and the blame, and not the solution....I think the solution is to start changing within ourselves.
Jessica Peterson>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>Once again... I do not want to focus on any one person in this discussion...
Wendell Smith>>Like CD says everyone is racist but its about who holds the most power and white have more advantages over other races. Just look at our country can anyone say that they will ever see someone of color being president
Barbara Abantao>>!?
Natalia Escuti>>also i agree with Victoria, shouldn't alway sput the blame on white people...if we talk about the whole race..as i said before we can go to Europe where whites are seen differently than in here, if we talk about whites in the US that's another history..many issues will rise becuase the variety of minorities in this country and their own prejudism
Melody Himidian>>!
Teresa Worrell>>maybe a woman, put no a person of color
Jessica Peterson>>It's not so much blaiming white privilage as it is acknowledging it, the problem is denying it because it is in fact out there
Sheena Malhotra>>RF. The point of that is to change how we talk about racism in our society. As Victor said in the film, racism was seen as a "people of color's" problem until now... but really they're just at the receiving end of it. White priivlege is an attempt to change that focus
Wendell Smith>>!
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Sheena Malhotra>>KU... the invisibility of how white privilege works... I think Peggy McIntosh gives a lot of different answers to that.
Sheena Malhotra>>WS
Sheena Malhotra>>MH
Sheena Malhotra>>BA
Barbara Abantao>>agree with JP Is it really blaming though... or is it just about realizing?
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Jessica Peterson>>!!
Wendell Smith>>TW i agree with that also I can see Hilary Clinton running for president and winning
Crysol Dominguez>>if the mexicans discriminate people will not get their tacos in this country (and i am being streotypical on purpose) but if the whites discriminate then many people will not have jobs..
Melody Himidian>>Unless we realistically listen and 'hear' other peoples experiences with our hearts, the racism issues will not be solved.
Barbara Abantao>>CD..lol
Sheena Malhotra>>VB. Actually... it's not about blaming white people in a "personal" manner... it's actually looking at whiteness as an institutional thing... how it operates systemically. I think if you see it as blame...it's really hard to get at the essence of the argument... because you get in a defensive posture of "I'm not a racist... I didn't anythign to anyone"
Teresa Worrell>>!
Teresa Worrell>>
Teresa Worrell>>!
Teresa Worrell>>!
Teresa Worrell>>
Teresa Worrell>>hello
Teresa Worrell>>
Barbara Abantao>>agree
Sheena Malhotra>>tw
Jessica Peterson>>!
Natalia Escuti>>agree with melody
Sheena Malhotra>>jp
Crysol Dominguez>>!!
Sheena Malhotra>>cd
Jessica Peterson>>the feelinf of blame i think comes when white privilage is denied, I dont anyone can outrightly deny white prvilage and when it is denied or when the statement "I dont beenfit" is made it in a way trivializes the struggles of so many people
Teresa Worrell>>I cannot shed my white skin, but I would like to know how to act...my vision has been white washed for a long time
Teresa Worrell>>
Jessica Peterson>>sorry for all of the typing errors*
Sheena Malhotra>>okay folks... we're going to have to wrap this up
Sheena Malhotra>>TW
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Teresa Worrell>>I can stop racism...but how do you stop privilege?
Crysol Dominguez>>I just wanted to say that i have encountered "white privilege" agianst me, and when I sa the video i was brought to tears...because all of the accounts of the men told was like hearing them talk about me..
Jessica Peterson>>!
Sheena Malhotra>>TW. I think you can actually use your white skin and what access you might have to take an anti-racist stance, to speak out about racism where you find it... to really hear the stories that people of other races are telling you...
Sheena Malhotra>>and you can use it "educate other white people"... because sometimes this argument can be better heard coming from you than it can from a person of color.
Sheena Malhotra>>JP
Sheena Malhotra>>So I think there's a lot you can do... disrupt it where you find it.
Jessica Peterson>>I loved what Lee Muyn Wah did and I learned that afterwards they all went on Oprah and Victor and David were the closeest out of everyone
Wendell Smith>>Natalia I emailed you my contact info so we can get started on the project
Natalia Escuti>>got it wendell
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Sheena Malhotra>>okay... want to thank everyone for this very stimulating discussion
Evelyn Cazun-Rodriguez>>girls are we meeting in chat room 2?
Ashlee Burke>>yes
Jessica Peterson>>yup
Sheena Malhotra>>i invite you all to continue to reflect on this topic.
Sheena Malhotra>>will see you all online next time.. have a nice evening.