Online Chat Transcript: September 28, 2004

Sheena Malhotra>>AS. I want to clarify the questions assignment

Cheri Larson>>May we still get some credit for posting

Alicia Martino>>?

Sheena Malhotra>>you're supposed to compose a question... as if you're asking a question to the class about the reading. Not a question for me to clarify.

Adrine Semerjian>>oh, ok that makes more sense, thank you.

Sheena Malhotra>>i.e. model your questions on the kinds of questions I put up on the discussion boards.

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Sheena Malhotra>>some of you were making comments, rather than composing thoughtful questions about the readings there

Sheena Malhotra>>AM

Alicia Martino>>Did we have questions due for this week?

Sheena Malhotra>>I don't believe so. Only if there is a question link

Alicia Martino>>I didn't think so

Alicia Martino>>Just wanted to make sure

Ardavan Rabie>>hello everyone, sorry i'm late, Dr. Malhotra, can we talk about the movie?

Sheena Malhotra>>CL. I'm not going to allow "back posting" ...

Cheri Larson>>OK. Thanks

Sheena Malhotra>>but please be good about posting in the future

Sheena Malhotra>>AR. what was your question

Ardavan Rabie>>not a question, more like comments

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Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>sorry, my computer froze

Sheena Malhotra>>AR. we're just going to get going with that

Ardavan Rabie>>great

Sheena Malhotra>>okay... let's move to the film, "Color of fear" and begin our discussion of the materials there

Sheena Malhotra>>then I want to work backwards for some of the other texts

Cheryl Child>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>but let's start with your reactions. CC

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Sasikala Raminani>>sheena i don't watch that movie

Cheryl Child>>while everyone raised valid points/concerns, I did not like listening to grown men argue for 90 minutes

Sheena Malhotra>>or other class reactions

Sheena Malhotra>>cc. i would like comments on the CONTENT of the piece, please

Sasikala Raminani>>can i get that movie now at library

Jessica Ramuno>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>yes

Amir Setoudeh>>!

Nayeena Duffey>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

Sheena Malhotra>>ND

Cheryl Child>>!

Ruth Evans>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>cc

Sheena Malhotra>>re

Kristen Fujitaki>>!

Arleen Curiel>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>kf

Ardavan Rabie>>i thought it was interesting, perhaps not the way i would have gone about it, but having many different friends in different ethnicities, i think gettting things out in the open always helps,

Lucia Lopez>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>LL

Nayeena Duffey>>I thought that the content of the movie was very good because it brought to the surface many questions that people have about opposing races that they may have been scared to talk about

Cheryl Child>>one of the things i found interesting re: content was that I am not sure David was ever really listening...they asked him to stop using "you people" and "colored people" and he continued anyway...that is so rude

Ruth Evans>>I did not realize that I can not relate to non-white racism

Amir Setoudeh>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CC. good point. I want to talk about that

Sheena Malhotra>>can anyone tell us why the use of those terms "colored" or "you people' is offensive

Sherry Stevens>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>SS

Sheena Malhotra>>AS

Kamilah Harris>>!

Amir Setoudeh>>the film seemed to pointed in a bit of narrow direction, where it seemed like it was trying to teach diversity, but only seemed to include the opinions of black or white males and females, nothing in between.

Lucia Lopez>>I noticed a good point, it was soo difficult for them to first open up to each other and hear each other

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Sheena Malhotra>>KH

Kristen Fujitaki>>I thought that it raised great points and it was great that they were so honest with each other. It was intereseting because of the vulnerability that was present. The white men were vulnerable because they were seen as the oppressors but the minorities also had vulnerability issues regarding racism between or within their own races.

Cheryl Child>>!

Jessica Ramuno>>i felt their level of honesty was amazing. they had different experiences and were able to trust each other to share themselves. the changed attitudes at the end were extreme. i wanted to know what other techniques were used throughout the weekend.

Lucia Lopez>>is why its made more difficult to come across as a whole

Alicia Martino>>!

Kamilah Harris>>the use of "colored people" or "you people" singles others out

Cheryl Child>>because it is singling out that "you" are different

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Kamilah Harris>>exact;y

Kamilah Harris>>exactly*

Ardavan Rabie>>they are effensive becuase the defferentiate between people and lable them

Sheena Malhotra>>Yes... their honesty... and dealing these issues ... both at the level of whites and people of color ... were very important aspects of the film, I thought.

Alicia Martino>>its offensive because they make people fell like they don't belong

Sheena Malhotra>>thank you... and the term "colored" has a history embedded in slavery

Sherry Stevens>>I particularly liked the statement that one of the African american made which was that he could be destructive because of the anger he felt but that that wouldn;t be "productive" and wanted to voice himself in an alternative fashion, as in being taped. u

Cheryl Child>>!

Mary Barnes>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>SS. Yes. There was a lot of anger, and a lot of willingness to talk about it.

Sheena Malhotra>>CC, MB

Ardavan Rabie>>i think if we all felt comfortable enough to turn racism into a joke, perhaps in the next few jenerations it would disapear

Tiffany Burkes>>!

Cheryl Child>>I thought it was interesting that the one many felt that he was two different people: a corporate guy during the day and a black man after work was over, but he could not be black and corporate

Sheena Malhotra>>AR. Unfortunately, I don't agree with you there. I think it would just perpetuate it.

Sheena Malhotra>>TB

Tiffany Burkes>>i would have to disagree , it does not matter what anyone does racismcannot be escaped

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>!

Jessica Ramuno>>i feel that taking racism too lightly (ie a joke) could have the effect of discounting anothers experience

Sheena Malhotra>>CC. Yes. And the reason for that is that so much of corporate america is built on the dominant worldview... which in this case is "white"

Sheena Malhotra>>PN

Mary Barnes>>The white character David reminded me of family members racist attitudes I have tried to deal with all my life

Ardavan Rabie>>well, let me elaborate, one of my best friends is muslim, and i'm jewish, the two of us have been talking smack to eachother about our religions for ever now, and we both find it amusing and funny, bothof us knowing full well that the other means no harm

Sheena Malhotra>>MB. I think that is very true and honest of you to bring up.

Alicia Martino>>racism is one of those things that never goes away, it just manifests itself in different ways

Sheena Malhotra>>David probably reminds most of us of someone we know ... someone close

Mary Barnes>>It has been a big struggle for me

Mary Nicks>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>MN

Sheena Malhotra>>In fact, I wonder how many of you found that you could identify with David. I did to a certain extent ... at one time

Jessica Ramuno>>in the introduction of the film, i identified with davids attitude that if i dont look at others differently, i am facillitating a lessening of racism. this perspective however clearly has roots in my white privilege

Ardavan Rabie>>AM, it will never go away if we don't let it, but if we clown it and make fun of it, one can realize its not as hard to get rid of

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>i agree with SM and TB when they say that racism cannot disappear because even if the world comes to a point where people look upon other races as they do themselves, the idea of racism will come about because even if they dont feel that way at that moment, the thought of it once being felt that way will be present. i dont think we'll ever get to a point when other races will think of themselves just like the race looking at them does. what i mean is that if a black person could be thought of as equal to a white person from the white's point of view without the thought of the way that the black person used to be looked at clouding the white mans judgement. does that make any sense?

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. That is a very important point.

Mary Nicks>>I have often thought of the images that are present in classrooms of being American, and how so much is missing upon the walls. There needs to more connection for each of us in our everday experiences because I truly saw all of the men as Americans. We just don't necessarily protray their unique stories adequately.

Sheena Malhotra>>And we have to look at the spaces do we see those faces overrepresented.

Cheryl Child>>!

Jessica Ramuno>>i think PN has a point that the hurt and experience of racism seems to perpetuate itself

Sheena Malhotra>>i.e. i wonder about our government's policy now ... against affirmative action for education... but all for it when it comes to the army

Sheena Malhotra>>CC

Helen Mejia>>I did not really realizw white privilege until the movie and reading

Lucia Lopez>>I also felt the white man made a huge impact when he said "there is not struggle or strikes if they don't cause it", I thought, however, he might not be initiating what is going on, but certainly contributing by ignoring it

Ardavan Rabie>>PN, i think you have some good points, but in my oppinion every race has earned thier stereo type, doesn't mean they all fit that stero type

Carole Vork>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>cv

Mary Nicks>>mn!

Sheena Malhotra>>mn

Carole Vork>>Bill Cosby himself says that affirmative action hurts the black man

Cheryl Child>>What I thought was interesting in the film was the you (or at least myself anyway) could see sterotypes coming out in the various ethnic groups that many people try so hard to overcome. I.E. Vicotr was very lound and aggressive while the men of Asian decent were quieter and never interrupted

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Cheryl Child>>I agree AR

Cheri Larson>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CV. the affirmative action debate is a complicated one. and yes, some black folks are for it and others against it. however, i'm pointing out that the trend now has been to oppose it in our schools... but to use it in the army? think about the implications of that...

Sheena Malhotra>>CC

Sheena Malhotra>>sorry, CL

Cheri Larson>>Yes, I think David Lee, the young Chinese, was not very "macho"

Kristen Fujitaki>>!

Cheri Larson>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>kF, CL

Mary Nicks>>I think the education about racism throughout history needs to include "white priviledge". I have found myself looking more closely at everyday ways it impacts a silent message.

Sheena Malhotra>>okay... just want to note... i'm loosing track here... please "raise your hand" before typing out things

Ardavan Rabie>>the affirmitive action is probable not a very good idea now , but in the long run, I think it can really help african americans in perticular

Jessica Ramuno>>i think affirmative action, though obviously controversal and i don't know where i stand, should be used in all goverment programs or none

Sherry Stevens>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>SS

Carole Vork>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CV

Ardavan Rabie>>!

Kristen Fujitaki>>There was an article in the sundial today about africn americans being overrespresented and latinos being underrepresented in the army. They use money for education as a way to lure minorities in to the army instead or trying to develop other ways for them to be able to get an education. They fall into a trap.

Cheri Larson>>I was very impressed how Lee Mun Wah did an great job as moderator or faciltator

Carole Vork>>So is a person getting the job because of affirmtive action or their merits?

Carole Vork>>I don't see that it has done that much for women, or anyone

Jessica Ramuno>>!

Kamilah Harris>>I agree JR

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

Sheena Malhotra>>AR

Mary Nicks>>mn!

Sheena Malhotra>>CV. I think the point of affirmative action is to give folks who would not have ACCESS otherwise a chance.

Helen Mejia>>!

Carole Vork>>cv and you don't think the army does that?

Cheri Larson>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>We don't seem to mind it when it comes to the higher echelons of our society... for example, GW Bush would never have gotten into Yale without the fact that his father got him access to that spot

Carole Vork>>!

Jessica Ramuno>>i've been hearing how the "no child left behind" program requres the schools to give the names and numbers of students to military recruiters to insure school funding

Ardavan Rabie>>Ithink that the Affirmitive action can help open doors for minorities who haven't had the chance to develope themselves to do so, and in the longrun, thier next generation will become just like everyone else

Helen Mejia>>I agree with KF because that is why my fiance joined the army and he is latino

Sheena Malhotra>>Isn't that affirmative action

Sheena Malhotra>>CV

Carole Vork>>All the men in my rate the military highly and all served proudly

Sheena Malhotra>>Please... folks, do not post without me calling on you

Ardavan Rabie>>and have a chance at the sam education and wealth

Carole Vork>>so getting an education and benefits, helps them doesn't it?

Mary Barnes>>!

Ardavan Rabie>>absolutely CV

Sheena Malhotra>>CV. The point is not whether folks in the military do a good job. They obviously do. But when we, as a government, do not offer education to our kids... and when we go into communities of color and recruit specifically there... then it's a problem....

Sheena Malhotra>>MB

Carole Vork>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CV

Carole Vork>>well in ghettos is where they need this opportunity I think

Ardavan Rabie>>!

Carole Vork>>.....because what would they do otherwise?

Sheena Malhotra>>CV. Why does the price of an education have to be literally risking your life... if you're poor?

Cheri Larson>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CL

Jessica Ramuno>>!

Kamilah Harris>>!

Jacqueline Gutierrez>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>JR, AR

Alicia Martino>>?

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>!

Carole Vork>>!

Mary Barnes>>I understand now about white privilege from the readings, I did not know about this before. But I (like David) don't feel privileged. So many things in my life have been a struggle, like now I am supporting myself and putting myself through CSUN and being white has nothing to do with it.

Cheri Larson>>In the Fire Dept today affirmative action does not always mean most capable, yet if we need a fireman/perso don't we want the most capable?

Ardavan Rabie>>i agree with CV, we are all capable of doing something or the other, you obviously can't recruit from the HOme of Blind, so the best place is were kidds are already fighting with guns, regardless of the race

Mary Nicks>>mn!

Sheena Malhotra>>AR. I want you to really look at that statement. And look at what you're advocating then.

Sheena Malhotra>>MN

Carole Vork>>Many risk their life on the streets now.. and we are not always at war. I heard on the news last night that more people are killed in So. Los Angeles than in the war.

Sheena Malhotra>>CV. Shouldn't that be a reflection of the attention we need to give the streets of LA?

Carole Vork>>absolutely

Sheena Malhotra>>Or is it okay for us to just leave them to kill themselves off

Jessica Ramuno>>it is because of my white privilege that i was able to recieve help and support from my friends and family to attend college. it is still difficult financially. it seems unfair that others are asked to potentially give their lives for this opportunity.

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>the gov should not put so much effort into recruiting for the army, instead they should focus on helping the poor communities and getting them to prosper with education, finances, etc

Sheena Malhotra>>Why are people killing themselves on the streets of LA?

Carole Vork>>we have been

Sheena Malhotra>>Crime is often linked to poverty, isn't it?

Carole Vork>>!

Kamilah Harris>>!.....

Sheena Malhotra>>CV, KH

Carole Vork>>we have been helping the poor forever and it doesn't seem to end

Cheri Larson>>!

Cheryl Child>>!

Jacqueline Gutierrez>>!

Kamilah Harris>>In response to CV: I would say yes, in the "ghetto" is where opportunities are need, but not just the opportunity to join the military! Opportunities through growth and education should be aimed at the poor in the "ghettos" as well

Helen Mejia>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CL, CC

Amir Setoudeh>>!

Arleen Curiel>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>KH. Exactly. But that is exactly what is being cut. Schwarzenneger wanted to cut EOP. Which is an Outreach Program into exactly those communities

Cheri Larson>>Crime is also linked to drugs, maybe poor people selling to raise themseves up to a "higher economic" level.

Carole Vork>>!

Ardavan Rabie>>Dr. SM, thats my point exactly,I'm simply saying, that if my son or daughter were disabled i wouldn't want them to serve in the army, but if they were out there pulling out guns on the streets, I'd love for them, or rather I'd force them to join the army, becuase then they only have something to gain and nothing to loose

Carole Vork>>You can work or go to school if you are hungry. The military meets that

Cheryl Child>>I agree that we have been helping the poor forever, but that does not mean we stop helping. While I myself have been fortunate, my dad (who is white) worked several jobs to support his dying parents and put himself through school all the way to an MBA; complaining about things will get you no where, but working hard will; if the drive is there you can succede in this country

Sheena Malhotra>>CL. I think you need to be careful of that statement. That's sounds a lot like "victim blaming"

Helen Mejia>>becasue the are willing to do whatever they can for money, gangs give money or help out in a way

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>PN

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Sheena Malhotra>>AR. One that makes an assumption that everyone living in poverty is running around toting guns.

Lina Helou>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>LH

Lina Helou>>I work with criminals and the reasons for their behavior is usually

Lina Helou>>neglect or poor upbringins

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Lina Helou>>education has influence too but criminals come in all shapes and colors

Mary Nicks>>I think that they are recruiting High Students in all areas, as I just sent papers back to my daughters school with my permission for thier names to be on the list. The same list goes to the colleges. So it appears that in some sense they may be covering all angles. Education offers opportunities. That opportunity for varied reasons may not be available to everyone as I feel it should. Even now I have indentured myself to return to college because their was not another way to financial do it. The problem is that kids need more choices of the possibilities other than that of what gangs can offer. The problems with drugs affect every age and population.

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>i think its rare to find a gov official or someone in the same kind of standing who truly cares for the people that they govern or rule over. most of the men or women in those situations are so into getting money for themselves that they often sacrifice programs and institutions and other things for the people less fortunate than them only so that they could raise more money for themselves and their investors who put them in that position. to give an example, look at michael eisner. yes he is not in the goverment, but look at all the horrible things he is doing that are ruining the disney company all so that he can get more money

Sheena Malhotra>>MN. I think you make a good point.

Sheena Malhotra>>Kids need choices. And even poor kids need choices.

Sheena Malhotra>>Otherwise we just perpetuate the cycle.

Ardavan Rabie>>not everyone, there are kids growing up in poverty who don't join the army instead get ecucated as, i wasn't talking about those though, but then I know plenty of white, jewish or others that are well off, and still join the army

Ardavan Rabie>>what about poor kids who make the wrong choices?

Sheena Malhotra>>And that's what I'm arguing for. This is a great country. And yes... it is meant to be a land of opportunity.

Ardavan Rabie>>or rich kids for that matter?

Sheena Malhotra>>Not "a land of opportunity for some"

Mary Nicks>>mn!

Alicia Martino>>!

Ardavan Rabie>>!

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Sheena Malhotra>>AR. Please post in turn. I think your point is taken. And the point I was making was not that the army is bad. But rather it is troublesome when we do not offer different opportunities to ALL our kids... not just to some kids.

Sheena Malhotra>>MN

Sheena Malhotra>>AM

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Alicia Martino>>I think that no matter who you are, we all could use some help. we should not sit here and tear each other apart. we should be helping each other.

Carole Vork>>?

Sheena Malhotra>>CV

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Carole Vork>>Professor can we talk about the exam?

Ardavan Rabie>>can I ask you a question Dr. SM?

Sheena Malhotra>>CV. We can do that later... towards the end of class, I'll open it up for those kinds of questions

Sheena Malhotra>>AR, yes?

Carole Vork>>ok

Ardavan Rabie>>I am 5

Ardavan Rabie>>

Ardavan Rabie>>

Mary Nicks>>I think the discrepancies with wealth will be with us and along with that will be the struggles of the many. I think that we need to work through our legislative process to ensure that the least able in our society are ensured what is considered the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Sheena Malhotra>>MN. Yes. That is very important.

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Ardavan Rabie>>sorry, I'm 5"9, say i was a great basketball player, but my hight doesnt' permit me to play, should I be given the same chance as a young man who is 6"5?

Ardavan Rabie>>on the national level that is

Sheena Malhotra>>I think we should also look at some of the ways in which race and class often go together... as they have in this discussion. But to realize that that is not always true. Poverty impacts all races.

Sheena Malhotra>>AR. That question is a set up. Let's ask it a different way.

Carole Vork>>f

Carole Vork>>

Carole Vork>>sorry

Carole Vork>>

Sheena Malhotra>>If the minimum height requirement for a player is 6' and you don't meet it... then you shouldn't be in the team. But if you meet the 6' requirement... and you play well... then you should be considered

Amir Setoudeh>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>Often, the debate about AA starts with the assumption of someone who is unqualified.

Mary Nicks>>mn

Sheena Malhotra>>And that is a distortion of what AA is about

Ardavan Rabie>>but i'm only 5"9

Sheena Malhotra>>Has it been abused in the past? surely. As all systems get abused, so has this one been misused by some. But that doesn't mean that it has no merrits.

Jessica Ramuno>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>MN

Sheena Malhotra>>AR. Then you shouldn't get to play

Amir Setoudeh>>but doesnt the the simple fact of having a height limit in a way discriminate?

Ardavan Rabie>>no AS, thats why its called basketball

Sheena Malhotra>>AS. There are always requirements for every job. I.e. I need a Ph.D. to teach.

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Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>!

Ardavan Rabie>>right, now i can't complain if i can't teach cuz i don't have a phd

Sheena Malhotra>>So will I argue that I should be allowed to teach without even a BA? That would be silly

Amir Setoudeh>>yes, but who should should set the limit?

Adrine Semerjian>>!

Cheri Larson>>!

Ardavan Rabie>>Laws and rules are made to follow, and i think we should do just that instead of complaining about it cuz it doesen't always shoot our way

Sasikala Raminani>>

Sheena Malhotra>>But once we have a pool of QUALIFIED applicants... people who all have Ph.D's... then I think it is useful to look at who is NOT represented at our table... and find ways to allow them access... because usually, our tendency is to hire people JUST LIKE US

Sheena Malhotra>>AS

Sheena Malhotra>>CL

Mary Nicks>>I think the problem lies in the requirements. Requirements set a standard but they rarely indicate the potential of the individual. For example the entrance exam into college SAT... it is a measure of one moment in time and reflective of certain knowledge, but does it truely reflect the individuals potential in the long term. Does it mirror their ability to adapt and progress at a university given the support they may need to ensure success?

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>thats what i was just going to say, it doesnt discriminate cuz those are the requirements, however, if they see you and then change the requirements so that you wouldnt be able to join, then thats discrimination

Adrine Semerjian>>I think there should be requirements and limits set in order for people to be driven in order to reach goals....I think it keeps feople focused, and even for those with hurdles of being minorities, if they have the drive i think they can achieve any goals as long as society is open and willing to cooperate

Sasikala Raminani>>sheena my java cut off thank god it's working now

Cheri Larson>>Are'nt there some areas where we need the most qualified, regardless of ethnicity?

Sheena Malhotra>>AS. the question is ... is society open and willing?

Sheena Malhotra>>because if it were... would we still have the socio-economic divides that we do now

Jessica Ramuno>>tim wises essay made a reference to a group of students who sued because affirmative action students were admitted before them despite lower scores and grades. he went on to point out that these students didn't complain about white students who were also admitted with low scores and grades.

Mary Nicks>>mn!

Ardavan Rabie>>I agree with you Dr. SM, and thats why I thinkl the affirmitive action is a good idea to raise the level of education among minorities so in the next few generations to come, they can have the same opportunities as the white man

Sheena Malhotra>>we wouldn't... unless you're going to argue that black folks are poor because they're lazy!

Amir Setoudeh>>So if feels as if your saying that IF there is a limit (determined by whomever), then it is ok to discriminate.. what if someone decided that you must make $200,000 a year to attend college, wouldn't that be wrong?

Sheena Malhotra>>MN

Adrine Semerjian>>?

Sheena Malhotra>>well.. wait for just a bit... and our governor is setting us up exactly for that situation!

Sheena Malhotra>>just being facetious!

Ardavan Rabie>>not becuase they are lazy, Dr. SM, but because they the ones that don't work and fit the stereo type don't know any better

Cheri Larson>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CL

Cheri Larson>>Just like David C. "didn't really know better" about there being racism in his home..

Mary Nicks>>I think that some doors are opening,,, for women I have seen changes in my lifetime. The Women's Basketball Association is one example. The fact that they are now building gyms for girls sports to equal that of mens sports. Opportunities come when voices are and often times I think that comes in the form of legislations mandating changes.

Sheena Malhotra>>yes. i'm harping on this because some of these trends will impact all of YOU.

Sheena Malhotra>>cuts to EOP, and raised tuition fees are impacting you today.

Ardavan Rabie>>Thanks to Arnold

Cheryl Child>>!

Kamilah Harris>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>cc, kh

Carole Vork>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CV

Carole Vork>>Let's not blame it all on Arnold - pleeeez

Cheryl Child>>I have to admit the school cuts caught me off guard. I thought oh whatever it does not affect me because I will be able to afford an increase in tuition. However, I can no longer graduate in the Spring because of the cuts in classes, not just increase in tuition. I really should have thought it out better

Sheena Malhotra>>no. that would be too simplistic. but i think we can hold him accountable for the proposals he has originated!

Sasikala Raminani>>politics

Carole Vork>>!

Kamilah Harris>>I understand the point you are trying to make Professor Malhotra. If they were to cut the EOP program I would have to struggle even FURTHER to make ends meet. When they raised tuition again this year, I was upset and devastated!

Mary Nicks>>mn!

Sheena Malhotra>>KH. Exactly.

Sheena Malhotra>>

Sheena Malhotra>>MN

Sheena Malhotra>>CV

Carole Vork>>well how about the legislative body and hey the people who voted him in?

Sheena Malhotra>>also responsible

Alicia Martino>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>AM

Ardavan Rabie>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>AR

Alicia Martino>>This why it is important for all of us to vote!

Amir Setoudeh>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>AS

Amir Setoudeh>>I agree with AM, because if you don't and make a stand, we are all also to blame

Jessica Ramuno>>!

Ardavan Rabie>>If I may, we waist too much time thinking there is something wrong with this country, not realizing in other countries racism and prejiduice ends in berning people in oven, like the holocost, or destroyed with the mustard gass like in Iraq,

Mary Nicks>>We all have to be accountable. We have to work within the system when we find that cuts are causing discrimination. If education needs to be a priority than that voice needs to be heard by the people we have elected to represent us.

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

Sasikala Raminani>>sheena how long been in this country

Sheena Malhotra>>about 17 years

Sasikala Raminani>>wow

Jessica Ramuno>>please vote! make your educated opinions heard. it's not to late to register yourself or someone else.

Sheena Malhotra>>MN. Exactly.

Ardavan Rabie>>we take our freedom here for granted and wasted too much time fighting it becuase things doen't go our way, I think thats wrong.

Sheena Malhotra>>okay... I want to move back to the discussion of the readings... these issues are all connected

Sheena Malhotra>>but I want to get more specific now.

Sheena Malhotra>>White Privilege. Let's talk about McIntosh

Sheena Malhotra>>reactions?

Mary Barnes>>!

Adrine Semerjian>>even if we vote and try to make the best decisions, how will we be able to trust our govrnment?....everyone who sets these expectations and limits for society, how will we know that there is no biased held by those that chose who gets these opportuities?

Sheena Malhotra>>MB

Alicia Martino>>!

Mary Barnes>>The reading was an eye opener about something I was no aware existed.

Sheena Malhotra>>AM

Cheryl Child>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CC

Kamilah Harris>>!

Jessica Ramuno>>!

Cheri Larson>>!

Cheryl Child>>I knew it exhisted. The reading just pointed out to me how it existed

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>!

Arleen Curiel>> mb i agree with you

Carole Vork>>

Carole Vork>>

Sheena Malhotra>>Yes... MB & CC...

Sheena Malhotra>>Kh, JR, CL

Alicia Martino>>I thought it was intersting that he felt helived in a state of false equality because he was oblivious to his white advantage

Sheena Malhotra>>she, actually

Nayeena Duffey>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>PN, CV

Cheri Larson>>I think that her idea of "freedom of confident action" is no longer as valid as it might have been in 1988.

Alicia Martino>>She, sorry

Sheena Malhotra>>ND

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>it was interesting to me to read an article that was bringing up the disadvantages of being an 'advantaged' member of society. not so much disadvantages, but really the things that come to you because you are the way that you are.

Sheena Malhotra>>CL... say more

Jessica Ramuno>>i feel a main point in Mc Intoshes article was that as long as white privilege exists, this is not the free country of ours ideals. we need to not be complacent and think to change injustice.

Ardavan Rabie>>!

Kamilah Harris>>I actually read Wise's commentary before reading McIntosh in the reader. They seemed to make the same points (which I agreed with) that in order for any change in "white privlege" which can also be known as the people of color's disadvantage, the initial step of acknowledging that white privilege EXISTS must be taken.

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>it was looking at things from the other side, a side that is not commonly discussed and so seems unusual to be read about

Nayeena Duffey>>I liked how one of her points were if how she is apart of the majority and can see racism why is it that men won't acknowledge their unearned power over women.

Jessica Ramuno>>yes KH

Tiffany Burkes>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>KH. Yes. This is key. Privilege always works through its invisibility. We don't see it... because it seems normal. For example, we have had this big debate about Affirmative Action... but we don't question when sons of privileged fathers inherrit businesses... why is that not 'affirmative action" of a different kind?

Sheena Malhotra>>Not to turn the focus away from race... just an example

Carole Vork>>?

Sheena Malhotra>>TB

Sheena Malhotra>>CV

Ardavan Rabie>>I liked this article perticularly comments # 25,33,36, amd 41

Tiffany Burkes>>i would have to agree with kh, there are so many white people who feel that white privilege does not exist when it really does. but we have to remember that all races have certain types of privileges

Carole Vork>>I don't see the connection - what 's wrong with inheriting?

Ardavan Rabie>>I agree 100% TB

Sheena Malhotra>>CV. The assumption is that the son is somehow "qualified" to do the job. We don't question him or his qualifications. But we will question the qualifications of every black person in the office.

Ardavan Rabie>>you don't see no white guy in the NBA making 108 million

Carole Vork>>But that is private -

Carole Vork>>in the family so to speak

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Jessica Ramuno>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CV. Yes... very true. I'm not saying that it is a government program. What I'm talking about is OUR attitude towards it. Not whether people should inherrit things or not.

Carole Vork>>oh

Cheri Larson>>Terrorism has impacted us all and it does not differentiate color or gender for example. Our existence more today is fear based, not freedom based.

Lucia Lopez>>!

Carole Vork>>!

Ardavan Rabie>>And thats exactly what our focose should be right now CL

Sheena Malhotra>>LL, CV

Sheena Malhotra>>CL. Please connect comments to white privilege and how it works

Carole Vork>>I disagree - terrorism just shows up our differences, makes us more racist

Carole Vork>>.....not more afraid

Alicia Martino>>!

Jessica Ramuno>>to CV: what about the network connections families can provide within gov. or other affiliations that then affect others?

Sheena Malhotra>>Okay... so the point we're making here is that white privilege operates through its invisibility. How else does it work?

Lucia Lopez>>I think that is a very good point you make prof. about the inheritence being a privelge

Ardavan Rabie>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>AR

Sheena Malhotra>>AM

Carole Vork>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>cv

Carole Vork>>It's not white priviledge if other races do it too - lives inheritances

Alicia Martino>>One thing I never thought about was the color of ban aids. They only come in limited colors

Ardavan Rabie>>white men are more privallaged becuae when you go into a work place that is white dominated, you have a better chance if you are white, and suprizingly, most upper class work invironments are white dominated

Jessica Ramuno>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CV. You're right. I'm not arguing that inherritance is a "white privilege" thing. Please do not conflate those two.

Kristen Fujitaki>>!

Lucia Lopez>>instead of considering someone more qualified for the job they privilege others, within their ow

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. KF

Cheryl Child>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CC

Sasikala Raminani>>ydominatin

Ardavan Rabie>>but this could also work vs, if you are a white man going into a black dominated industry you have less of a chance to succeed

Kristen Fujitaki>>White privilege often causes white people to think "they should be more like us" It takes white vaules and forces them on others as being the right way

Cheryl Child>>The thing is there will always be privilege. If not color, then oh because we went to the same Ivy League school or because you were in the same fart or sorority house

Sasikala Raminani>> It's true I notice at work. Mostly whiteg

Ardavan Rabie>>we all feel more comfortable with our own though, its psychology

Carole Vork>>AR - so true

Sheena Malhotra>>KF. Exactly. YOu make a good point

Ardavan Rabie>>exactly my point CC

Jessica Ramuno>>the point of white privilege is that it is more prevelant than most acqknowledge. whites recieve disproportionate opportunities because of the history of thier "dominance"

Mary Barnes>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>AR. Yes. That's true. But that's not what this country is meant to be about. It's meant to be about equal opportunity for ALL. Not just everyone who looks like me!

Sheena Malhotra>>MB

Mary Barnes>>When privilege becomes visible we become accountable

Ardavan Rabie>>when i was in Europe, i would be so delited to see an American, I didn't care who or what color, they were my HOMIES, from back home

Sheena Malhotra>>MB. Excellent point.

Sheena Malhotra>>I want to take up what MB is saying. One of the best ways of DISRUPTING white privilege is to make it VISIBLE

Sheena Malhotra>>AR. Please let's stay on the topic of white privilege here

Kristen Fujitaki>>!

Cheri Larson>>!

Ardavan Rabie>>sure

Sheena Malhotra>>Nation can be another facet of privilege... but we'll stay with race for now

Sheena Malhotra>>KF, CL

Mary Nicks>>mn!

Sheena Malhotra>>MN

Kristen Fujitaki>>bt it's difficult to make it visible. For instance, in the video, one of the white men did not really want to see that the stories of the blakc mens problems were true. It was easier to ignore them and discredit their experiences.

Cheri Larson>>..and then what will we personally do to change what is now visible is the question we each must ask and act upon.

Lucia Lopez>>!

Mary Nicks>>From the readings it appears to be visible, do you mean that it needs to be acknowledged openly?

Sheena Malhotra>>KF. Yes, it is not easy ... because it is so NORMalized.

Sheena Malhotra>>MN. Yes

Sheena Malhotra>>LL

Mary Barnes>>?

Sheena Malhotra>>MN. I think many of us continue to deny our own privilege... because it makes us uncomfortable.

Cheryl Child>>?

Jessica Ramuno>>!

Mary Nicks>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>But it is also one of the most crucial steps you can take in terms of your own education... to really examine your own privilege (race in this case... but also in terms of class, sexuality, gender, education)

Alicia Martino>>w!\

Sheena Malhotra>>MB, CC

Alicia Martino>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>JR, MN

Sheena Malhotra>>AM

Lucia Lopez>>In connection to the video, in order for anyone of color to come close to having similar privileges of whites, we have to give up who we are and act white if we want the privilege

Cheryl Child>>Prof. - what do you think someone should do to ackwnoledge their privilege

Mary Barnes>>How can we as a society or as individuals change this?

Alicia Martino>>we have to acknowledge that something exists in order to deal with it

Sheena Malhotra>>CC, MB. I think the first step is to acknowledge it for yourself. Then look at all the ways in which you enact it in the world.

Cheryl Child>>but if i acknowledge it will people recognize me for it

Sheena Malhotra>>Pay attention to the next time someone serves you first in line... when there's a person of color in front of you... or listen to the story of discrimination that someone is telling you ... and believe their experience... because it's coming from somewhere real

Jessica Ramuno>>discussing this issue is more enlightening than uncomfortable. i was wondering if in the video, the white man who identified himself as a racist, relly could be described a a participant of white privilege.

Sheena Malhotra>>CC. That is tough. Take chances... Reach out. And I think you'll be surprised.

Sherry Stevens>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. That's a great question. Well, I think everyone who is white enjoys white privilege in this country in some way. Now... he could choose to disrupt it whenever he notices it happening. And so in those instances he would be giving up the privilege

Sheena Malhotra>>SS

Sherry Stevens>>I just think it is so difficult to be who you are and NOT have to try to work twice as hard, but I suppose that is why we are here to find ways

Ruth Evans>>!

Mary Nicks>>From an early age my father always emphasized that it was a privilege to live in America. I never associated it with any race. Purphaps this priviledge was more to do with our rights as citizens. As I meet people and hear their stories I can not believe what they have endured.

Sheena Malhotra>>RE

Cheryl Child>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CC

Jessica Ramuno>>it seemed he was willing to take responsibility and validate the experiences of the other participants.

Ruth Evans>>What I got from the video was that IF we are present to racism we should try to intervine and open the eyes of the offender ?

Lucia Lopez>>!

Cheryl Child>>My guess is Prof. when you referred to nation as privilege, what MN just said is what you were referring to

Sheena Malhotra>>RE. Exactly. And CC ... yes

Sheena Malhotra>>LL

Jessica Ramuno>>RE yes! be the voice for others.

Lucia Lopez>>What the video reminded of doing in order to help this problem is to educate our surroundings, family, friends, others etc.

Sheena Malhotra>>On that note... I'm going to have to take the last few minutes to open up for more questions about the class

Lucia Lopez>>about even the existence of this problem

Ruth Evans>>Its hard when your own parents have been the offenders for too many years

Mary Barnes>>yes

Sheena Malhotra>>but I just want to say... this is one of the most important articles and films you'll be reading/watching for this class.. i recommend you read it closely again... because there it is very important

Sheena Malhotra>>sorry... because it is a very important piece

Ardavan Rabie>>Prof. SM, are you available in school for office hours?

Jessica Ramuno>>?

Sheena Malhotra>>AR. Yes. Wed 2-4 p.m.

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

Ardavan Rabie>>thanks

Sheena Malhotra>>Any questions about the class in general?

Jessica Ramuno>>I am still looking for a group. anyone interested?

Sheena Malhotra>>yes... how many of you are groupless?

Ardavan Rabie>>if I don't have class on wednesdays, can i call you during your office hours?

Sheena Malhotra>>yes

Ardavan Rabie>>yes jessica, i donn't have a group yet iether

Tiffany Burkes>>i just formed a group with jill and ady if jessica wants to join us

Kamilah Harris>>can I join you guys too?

Cheri Larson>>!

Kamilah Harris>>I still don't have a group

Sheena Malhotra>>CL

Ardavan Rabie>>oh, ok then, you never got back to me Tiffany, so I didn't know what happened

Jessica Ramuno>>thanks. i had emailed jill but had no response yet. i would love to join.

Sheena Malhotra>>perhaps after we stop here... all of you who want to talk can go into the Group 1 chatroom and figure this out

Sheena Malhotra>>in the meantime... are there any questions about the class, exam, etc.?

Mary Barnes>>?

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>?

Jessica Ramuno>>ok. thanks.

Sheena Malhotra>>MB, PN

Cheri Larson>>Kristen, I would like to switch focus from Dr. Catherine Hamlin to Oprah Winfrey as an agent of change. Is that OK with you and Prof?

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>will you be making the exam available so we can go in and see what the correct answers were?

Mary Barnes>>Are there any further directions about the interview other than the syllabus?

Lina Helou>>!

Lina Helou>>

Kristen Fujitaki>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>PH. No, I won't be posting the exam again.

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>You can call me during my office hours and I can go over it with you

Sheena Malhotra>>CL. That's fine

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>ok

Sheena Malhotra>>MB. No... but there is a guide to doing the interview that links from the schedule or the syllabus

Sheena Malhotra>>LH

Lina Helou>>do we need to clear the topic with you for the woman as an agent presentation?

Sheena Malhotra>>LH. No. Unless you have some doubt about it.

Lina Helou>>we are doing coco chanel, is that ok?

Sheena Malhotra>>LH. Choosing a figure like Chanel will make it more difficult for you.

Ardavan Rabie>>Tiffany, Jill, and Jessica, would you guys like to meet in Chat 1 for a few minutes to figure things out?

Ardavan Rabie>>about our group?

Jessica Ramuno>>yes Ardavan.

Carole Vork>>Are we excused yet Professor?

Sheena Malhotra>>I'm interested in women who REALLY brought about a lot of change for other women. And in ways more substantive than the fashion industry.

Sheena Malhotra>>CV, yes you can be

Carole Vork>>Thanks Professor.....Good Night then

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Lina Helou>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>Good night

Sheena Malhotra>>LH

Kamilah Harris>>goodnight all

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Lina Helou>>in a sense she freed women from restrictions

Pooneh Nasrollahnia>>bye

Ardavan Rabie>>good night prog

Sherry Stevens>>good night!

Sheena Malhotra>>good night

Ardavan Rabie>>sorry prof.

Mary Nicks>>until we write again have a good night

Sasikala Raminani>>

Sasikala Raminani>>good night sheena

Sheena Malhotra>>LH. I would advise you to do another person

Sheena Malhotra>>Good night

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Arleen Curiel>>good nite all

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Lina Helou>>ok

Alicia Martino>>bye

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Kristen Fujitaki>>bye

Mary Barnes>>good night

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Helen Mejia>>bye

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Ardavan Rabie>>tiffany, will you goin us in room one?

Sheena Malhotra>>okay... if there are no other questions, I will log off as well